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New CBH list

Post by Lowly » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:18 pm

Re: New CBH list

Post by impulse » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:36 pm

Post by pdandy » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:35 pm

Post by colect149 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:29 pm

Post by rickh » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:53 am

Post by pdandy » Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:39 am

Post by zebedee » Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:59 am

pdandy wrote: ↑ Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:39 am zeb- is there any chance of you attaching a copy of the old cbh rating list to this thread? It looks like ya intends to "stop displaying" the old list and given lots of our trailer yachts are not included in the new list it might be historically useful ?

Post by zebedee » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:17 am

Post by Jon » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:51 am

Post by MelN » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:30 am

Post by Moz3 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:01 am

Post by impulse » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:24 am

Post by Moz3 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:04 am

Post by impulse » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:57 am

Post by Lowly » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:58 pm

Post by Pipalini » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:15 am

Post by Lowly » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:57 pm

Post by pdandy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:45 am

Lowly wrote: ↑ Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:57 pm 3. Significance of class rules for mixed fleet racing: Under the old system where past performance was considered, the effect of "restrictive" class rules (such as Noelex 25 only having dacron main) was presumably included. Now that the new rule does not include past performance, classes that have restrictions on items that are not covered by the new set of measurements would seem to be disadvantaged. The response I received from the ratings office was that class rules would still need to be followed. Does that mean that a Noelex 25 can submit for a OAK rating with the same measurements and get the same rating but not need to follow the class rules (and use a laminate mainsail for example)? Regards Greg

Post by DanS » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:20 am

Post by impulse » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:36 am

Post by Davidjohn » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:52 am

DanS wrote: ↑ Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:20 am Maybe now is the time to also review class rules. Bring them inline with owners expectation.

Post by Jon » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:57 am

Post by pdandy » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:08 pm

Jon wrote: ↑ Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:57 am So has anybody managed to get their boat measured under the system? In Cairns the nearest measurer was 2000km away, in the ACT we are waiting for an interstate measurer to visit.

Post by Jon » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:18 pm

Post by Lowly » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:20 am

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Handicap Rating Rule Options for 2022

• By Gary Jobson
• February 8, 2022

The day was perfect for ­racing. With the wind out of the south at 15 knots, there was a spirited group of sailors striving to get their yachts to the finish line without leaving a second to spare on the racecourse. The course was a standard windward-leeward configuration, with 1.6-mile legs. After a below-average finish in the first race, our crew refocused and sailed exceptionally well for the next five races, achieving great starts, sailing on every favorable wind shift, and executing our boat handling with deft precision. We were doing everything we possibly could to ensure a corrected-time win.

But then, to our dismay, we watched our rivals round the final weather mark from well behind, set their spinnakers and jump on plane, cruising through our lee and sailing away, ­easily saving their time allowances and beating us on corrected time. Afterward, we analyzed every detail of every race, searching for ways to save even more time. Maybe we could have gained 20 seconds, but it never added up enough to make a difference. Eventually, it became clear to me that the handicap rating rule wasn’t working properly—certainly not for us, nor many other owners and teams that are becoming disheartened with the state of big-boat handicap ­racing.

This is, of course, not a new problem. The quest to assign fair handicap ratings to yachts of different shapes and sizes has been a challenge for more than a century. Looking back, a pattern seems to repeat every 20 years or so: A new rule emerges, designers and owners attempt to exploit every conceivable loophole, and inevitably the fleet dwindles as sailors become dissatisfied with the rule and walk away.

Big-boat handicap racing in North America is at a turning point once again. During my tenure at World Sailing , I was liaison to the Offshore and Oceanic Committee and the Offshore Racing Council. At US Sailing, I pushed the organization to improve its offshore regulatory operations. My perspectives, as a competitor and a board member, have always been aligned. In the United States, there is general dissatisfaction with our handicap rating rules, but what I have learned from current leaders about this situation is that help—and change—is on the way. To be successful, bold steps are in order.

Now, however, is not the time to create a new handicap rating rule. All the experts I’ve spoken to agree the preferred action is to improve the entry-level Performance Handicap Rating Factor system and work with the Offshore Racing Council, which manages ORC, to improve its rule for North American racing sailors. Creating a new handicap rule is an arduous process, and success is not a sure thing. There are many lessons from the past: In 1965, the Cruising Club of America and the Royal Ocean Racing Club collaborated on a new handicap rule for use in the Olympic Games. The Offshore Racing Council was formed to administer the new International Offshore Rule in 1969.

IOR was a vibrant rule because it was universally accepted and used internationally. In time, however, favor in IOR started to fade. Stan Honey, an authority on offshore racing and handicap systems, says American sailors became frustrated with the ORC in the 1980s for not fixing known problems with IOR. “ORC did not have the strength of character to maintain the IOR rule,” Honey says. “The technical committee was comprised of designers that had their own boats in build, so those guys didn’t want to change the rule to fix the problems.”

The IOR’s problem children—yachts with pinched ends—eventually killed the rule.

“The IOR would still be working if the ORC had fixed it,” Honey says, “but they didn’t. The boats got weird, and nobody liked them anymore.”

US yachtsmen then went and funded the development of the H. Irving Pratt Project and created a velocity prediction program (VPP) that became the Measurement Handicap Rule. The Pratt VPP is still the basis for handicapping rules in use today. The ORC used the basics of the MHS rule and created the International Measurement System, and soon enough, the same problems surfaced again.

“The ORC screwed it up again because it did not maintain it even though there was some great racing with the IMS rule,” Honey says. “When the loopholes got figured out, the technical committee did not fix the problems. So, the United States split off again, ­creating the Americap Rule and the Offshore Rating Rule.”

Today, several handicap ­rating rules are used in North America, including ORR, ORC, IRC (which is owned by the Royal Ocean Racing Club) and PHRF. That’s too many, and none are perfect.

Ed Cesare, chairman of New York YC’s Handicap Rating Rule and Measurement Committee, says the club used ORC broadly last summer for the first time and experienced a high level of disappointment from the fleet. “We received complaints about the quality and integrity of the certificates,” he says. “I am not at all comfortable that we are going to get to a good place with the ORC rule. They did a good job on marketing it, which led to unrealistic expectations about what the rule can do.”

Cesare and Larry Fox, representing the Storm Trysail Club, presented seven submissions via US Sailing to the ORC. The submissions asked to expand the wind range down to 4 knots; define the allowable use of unusual headsails (Code Zeros); and improve the way the VPP handles planing boats, adding more wind ranges from three groups to five. They also asked stability calculation questions, including a request to allow multiple standard ORC certificates at once for the same boat, and a request to examine the rated performance of unique boat types.

“All of [the submissions] were remanded to the technical ­committee,” he says.

The ORC’s response was the same when the United States was complaining about IOR and IMS in the 1980s and 1990s, Honey says. “It does not end well when you take that approach with American sailors.”

The ORC, he adds, needs to aggressively work to solve the problems and come up with a better rule, or at least a version of the rule that meets the needs of US sailors. “For 2022, the five wind-band scoring will help,” he says. “We think this will ameliorate the displacement-planing situation. It is in progress, and I hope the ORC will work with us.”

The United States has the third-highest number of ORC International certificates, so Cesare says his group will take action by putting yachts in appropriate classes. “The class breaks are going to be draconian,” he says. “If you have a 40-foot planing boat, you better get some of your friends to come or you are going to be ­racing by yourself.”

Dobbs Davis, chair of the ORC Promotion and Development Committee, has been championing the rule for many years. He is, of course, an enthusiastic supporter of the rule and says it works if the scoring is done properly. “Using ORC tools, we have multiple ways of scoring,” Davis says. “One of them is the wind triple-number system—low, medium and high [wind strength]. There are crossovers, which puts a burden on the race committee because they have to decide what is the low, medium or heavy wind. Basically, below 8 knots is low, 9 to 14 knots is medium, and above 14 knots is high.”

As far as dealing with the concerns of Cesare and Fox, Davis says the scoring works fine with planing boats—again, as long as the scoring is done properly. As to US Sailing’s other submissions, Davis says, race committees do need to establish accurate wind strengths to score boats correctly, but this is not easy. Some race committees will determine the wind strength before the race starts, and scoring with five wind ranges will make it worse. The ORC will not allow boats to have multiple certificates, he adds, “which would make it tough on our administrators. The ORC will not make estimates on stability. This is a safety issue.”

Matt Gallagher, an ORC member, past chair of the Chicago YC’s Race to Mackinac, and chair of US Sailing’s Offshore Racing Committee, says he’s committed to achieving two goals: “We want our members and racers to go offshore and do it with any rating rule our partner clubs choose to use, and then bring some stability to the rating rules and bring some focus back to PHRF. The base of the pyramid has been neglected for a while. We have to start growing that again.”

Gallagher is optimistic about the use of the ORC rule and says it’s one that needs attention and tweaking to make it more appropriate for the United States. “[The ORC is] going to have to pay more attention to us.”

Honey agrees: “PHRF should be cheap, cheerful and simple scoring,” he says. “People should understand that the most effective rating for their boat is in class scoring. Anything that changes a boat out of class scoring is going to be punished [with a higher handicap rating]. If you want to spend more money to perform better, put your money in new sails, coaches, a smooth bottom and stuff like that.”

As for the future, Honey has an interesting prediction: “A new rule will happen. The original VPP that came out of the Pratt Project is still the basis for the ORC. It is long in the tooth and old-fashioned. What is going to happen next is some graduate students are going to come up with some neural network-based rule. The timing will be just right in a year or two because people will be really frustrated with the ORC. It will start another 15- to 20-year cycle until people get tired of that rule.”

Until then, he says, US Sailing must focus on providing high-quality measurement services and supporting PHRF by providing a first-class online database with regional ratings and guidelines to help race committees manage local fleets. “PHRF should be kept at the entry level and use single time-on-time scoring,” Honey says. “Any event that wants to do wind-condition scoring should move on to another rule. Any sailor that wants to optimize their boat for different races should go do some different rule.”

A few venerable American races, such the Newport to Bermuda and the Transpacific Race, continue to use the ORR rule. However, in recent years, the Offshore Racing Association, which controls ORR, has struggled to keep its operation functioning. The ORC rule has a chance to be more broadly adopted domestically, but its managers need to work with American race organizers to improve the rule. PHRF has a promising future, but would be well-served to update its operations to make it easy to use. In our age of supercomputer technology, we have the capability to make improvements to handicap rating rules.

Honey suggests improvements can be made by using direct computational fluid dynamics for both hydrodynamics and aerodynamics, which is likely to be the first major improvement. The CFD would be incorporated in the rating calculator and run for each boat from the lines files and measurements. “The technology exists now and is becoming practical as computers become more powerful,” he says. “This would be a major step forward from the VPP in use now by ORC and ORR. I think ORC and ORR are considering such a development.”

US Sailing has hired veteran handicap rating administrator Jim Teeters to oversee the offshore office, and Alan Ostfield, US Sailing’s new CEO, has committed to hiring additional personnel to help Teeters get the operation running efficiently. To assist owners through the arduous measurement process, Honey is an advocate of using the Universal Measurement System, which allows boats to be measured once, with the measurement data used for any ­handicap rating rule.

Sailors and handicappers clearly don’t agree on what the ideal handicapping rule should be, but every sailor does want a fair chance of winning a race if they sail well. We all need to work together to make improvements so that when the wind is right and we sail a perfect race, we can be rewarded with the win.

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National CBH Listing

Victorian trailable yacht division position (vtyd) on "new" vs "old" cbh.

In 2018 Australian Sailing undertook a review of the Class Based Handicap (CBH) System and the Australian Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat Rule (ATYSBR). This review was undertaken at the request of the VTYD with the intention of finding a way to make the rule and CBH more inclusive.

The underlying position of the VTYD was that the "Old" CBH system worked extremely well for the majority of established classes and was proven by decades of racing. Where the old system fell down was in creating an accessible way of allowing modified boats, One of a Kind (OAK) boats, new classes of boats and new sports boat designs to obtain a rating with which to race competitively. This varied between receiving a rating that was highly speculative, or not receiving a rating at all due to non-compliance with some elements of the rule (such as centrecase location, compainionway location, overall width etc.

Between 2019 and present Australian Sailing have been implementing a "New" CBH based on applying a different mathematical formula to boat measurements. This formula has been evolving since 2019 and the number of boast with accurate measurement data has been increasing, however there are still many gaps in the data and outliers in boat ratings.

Beyond this there have been many changed to what were previously considered 'proven' ratings comparisons (ie many boats racing in the 0.725-0.728 bracket) which have seen considerable change due to the formula. 

In Victoria 95% of racing fleets race in what is considerd to be standard class configuration . With this in mind it is the opinion of the VTYD that the New CBH does not yet meet its initial objective of creating an system that will promote increased levels of participation in Trailable Yacht racing in Victoria.

Where the VTYD does see an immediate potential to increase participation is in using the New CBH system to rate Sporstboats, albeit there are ongoing disputes around the definition of a sportsboat.

2019 CBH Listing & Australian Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat Rule

Files available for download.

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CBH Rating System

Australian class based handicap (cbh) rating system, for trailable yachts and sports boats.

Australian Sailing undertook a review of the role of the National Trailable Yacht & Sports Boat Committee in 2020

As part of this process, a survey of stakeholders was conducted which attracted over 470 responses. The feedback from this survey resulted in some small changes to the handicapping model, as well as the procedures for managing ratings applications. 

The Class Based Handicap (CBH) formula has now been updated to align it with World Sailing’s Equipment Rules definitions and remedy some other previously identified issues. This change will ensure the rating is more inclusive, allowing a wider range of Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat Classes access to a CBH rating. 

As a result of the changes to the model and definitions the Trailable Yacht & Sports Boat Rule has been amended to reflect these changes and has now become the CBH Rating System. 

In addition, the National Committee has been disbanded and the CBH ratings function will be administered internally by Australian Sailing staff. Australian Sailing will also coordinate the hosting of the National Championships, in line with the way other Australian Sailing events are managed.

The Rating System is intended to: 

• Provide a National System for even and fair racing on handicap in a mixed fleet of Trailable Yachts and / or Sports Boats • Ensure transparency across the rating system  • Allow Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat owners to gain a new CBH at any time of the year • Support Australian Sailing in its work to promote Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat racing activities within the states and territories and at national level. 

Key Points:

• The Rating System only requires boat measurements, not performance data. • The CBH rating list will be published online and updated regularly and new boats are added. • The CBH formula will be reviewed annually and any amendments will be posted from time to time.

CBH Rating System document 

NEW APPLICATIONS and AMENDMENTS:

To declare your boat or your class measurements you will need to upload the Measurement Input Sheet that you can be downloaded here

Measurements input sheet Rev J-05

• If you are a Class R epresentative and you want to declare your Class measurements to get a CBH rating, you can do it online  Apply
• The measurement manual for CBH is available here.
• The light ship requirements for weighing  are explained here .

If you are the owner of One of A Kind boat that can't fit in any Class (either because it has been modified or because it's a one off design) you can apply online  for a CBH rating.   Apply   a fee of $100 applies for one of a kind ratings.

CBH RATING LIST:

The CBH rating list will be updated on a day to day basis with new measurements and new Classes as they come to hand. The CBH formula will be reviewed once a year on the 1st of July. The ratings are presented as a PDF any boat with a rating of 1 has insufficient date at the time of publishing this report.

The rating formula is reviewed once a year and a new list is issued each year on the 1st of August.

The Australian Sailing Rating office is still looking for some Class measurements. If you can provide measurements for a Class that is not listed in the new rating list, please contact the Rating Office, your help will be much appreciated:

[email protected]

(02) 9170 6917

Software Update: (2nd of Sept 2022)

The calculation of effective length has been updated resulting in rating changes. (120822)

Non-Spinnaker CBH Calculation altered generally increasing the NSCBH value 2% to 3% (020922)

The CBH rating needs to be measured by an Australian Sailing Accredited Measurer. You will find the list of Measurers in Australia here .

• Can I use both the old and the new rating system in one event? No, the new rating is a different formula than the old one. 
•     My boat/class is not in the new CBH rating list, how can I add it? To add a boat or a Class to the CBH list you need to contact the Ratings Office ( [email protected] ) or follow the steps found in the “NEW APPLICATION” paragraph at the top of the web page.
• Why is the CBH rating formula not published? The CBH rating formula is not published to prevent the optimisation of a boat to “beat” the rating. The aim of the CBH is to be a simple rating system, cheap and easy to use. The aim of this rating is not to encourage boat modification outside of Class Rules.
• What does it cost to add a boat or a Class to the CBH list? There is a charge of $100.00 to add a boat or a Class to the list.
• I modified my boat, it doesn’t comply with the Class Rules anymore, what should I do? If a boat doesn’t comply with its Class Rules because it has been modified, then the owner will have to provide the new measurements for the boat and apply for an  OAK (One of A Kind) CBH rating

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Racing Information - Notices of Race, Sailing  Instructions and more

HANDICAPPING SYSTEM

BOPTYS uses SailWave handicapping software:

For race series scored with a club handicap  the National Handicap for Cruisers (NHC) methodology is used.    NHC is a progressive handicap methodology developed by the Royal Yachting Association UK  (RYA) that determines a new handicap for the next race based on the result of a boat's last race in much the same way the previous club handicapping system did.

When a boat first takes part in a club race and initially for the 2022/23 season each boat  will start on its base New Zealand Trailer Yachting Association (NZTYA) handicap number. After this it will develop its own personal club number which it will retain and use for future races.

To find out more about NHC handicapping methodology follow this link  https://www.rya.org.uk/racing/technical/handicap-systems/nhc  where there is an overview, FAQ  and for the mathematicians and explanation of the NHC algorithms SailWave uses to determine each boats progressive handicap.

For races and series not scored with a club handicap  SailWave will use NZTYA handicaps for each race.

If you would like to find out more about SailWave and  handicaps or would like to get involved in racing and scoring  talk to your Vice-commodore or any of the racing subcommittee.

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Australian Sailing CBH Rating

The Australian Sports Boat Association has adopted CBH Rating run by Australian Sailing as its primary rating system. The changed from Yacht Rating Services Australia's SMS Rating to Australian Sailing's CBH Rating was approved by the ASBA Members at a Special general Meeting on the 24th November 2022 as the members agreed that the CBH rating system would suit the changing needs of the ASBA.

The Class Based Handicap (CBH) formula has now been updated to align it with World Sailing’s Equipment Rules definitions and remedy some other previously identified issues. This change will ensure the rating is more inclusive, allowing a wider range of Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat Classes access to a CBH rating.

As a result of the changes to the model and definitions the Trailable Yacht & Sports Boat Rule has been amended to reflect these changes and has now become the CBH Rating System.

In addition, the National Committee has been disbanded and the CBH ratings function will be administered internally by Australian Sailing staff. Australian Sailing will also coordinate the hosting of the National Championships, in line with the way other Australian Sailing events are managed.

The new Rating System is intended to

• Provide a National System for even and fair racing on handicap in a mixed fleet of Trailable Yachts and / or Sports Boats • Ensure transparency across the rating system  • Allow Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat owners to gain a new CBH at any time of the year • Support Australian Sailing in its work to promote Trailable Yacht and Sports Boat racing activities within the states and territories and at national level.

For all the information on Australian Sailing CBH rating, application and rating list, head over to their  resource's website

Sailing Australia has also created several resources to help owners with the transition to CBH:

Where to get CBH Information

Does your sports boat need measuring for CBH

Who can measure a sports boat for a CBH rating

How does a sports boat get measured for CBH

CBH and light ship condition

Applying for a CBH rating

CBH listing is publicly available

Preparing sports boat safety equipment

Current Boat CBH ratings

Lodging your CBH data with Sailing Australia

ASBA LTP Handicap

The Australian Sports Boat Association has adopted ASBA LTP as a secondary handicapping system. ASBA LTP is a performance handicap system developed by Top Yacht. A boat’s ASBA LTP Handicap will adjust over the course of an ASBA regatta and recalculated after each ASBA regatta and displayed ready for the next regatta.

The ASBA Handicaps are based on the long-term performance of the Sports Boat. If a Sports Boat does not have a ASBA LTP Handicap a starting handicap will be allocated be the ASBA committee. This handicap is applied to the elapsed time of the boat to obtain its corrected time for the race.

The ASBA has seen a need to create a performance handicap system for the fleet and working with Top Yacht the ASBA LTP Handicap was best suited as it does not just use results over a few races. The long term considers results over a longer period of time to make the best average handicap. This takes out the highs and lows that some performance handicaps can have. The Australian Sports Boat Association's committee discusses feedback from members and presents this to the Top Yacht’s Handicapping Committee to get the best out of the handicap system. A list of boats and handicaps have been compiled by Top Yacht. Boats and their handicaps get added and updated by Top Yacht as they sail with the fleet.

Current Boat ASBA LTP Handicaps

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Handicap tables

Handicap systems

 the rya administers two handicapping systems used in the uk allowing different class of boats to compete against each other.

Portsmouth Yardstick

The RYA Portsmouth Yardstick is a scheme operated jointly by the RYA and its Affiliated clubs.

The scheme, used worldwide, is reviewed yearly and amended to keep handicaps up to date, including new boats and adaptations of current classes. The scheme relies on sailing clubs using the suggested numbers, published by the RYA, and amending for their club before feeding this information back to the RYA via PY Online.

The RYA YTC powered by the RORC Rating Office is a free rating system to promote participation in racing cruisers. The system was taken on by the RYA in 2022 after a decade of it being run in the South West by its creators (SWYTC) with the objective to provide a simple rating assessment so that skippers of any skill level may feel encouraged to enter their boats in one off races, club series or even port regattas.

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3. Stary Oskol Theater for Children and Youth

4. Elijah Church

5. Monument to the Founders of Stary Oskol

6. Stary Oskol Local Lore Museum

7. Alexander Nevskiy Cathedral

8. Holy Trinity Church

9. Promagro

10. Warpoint

11. Church of Ascension

13. Temple Saint Blessed Grand Duchess Olga and Holy Duchess Anastasia

14. Dyakov's Office

15. Monument to Georgiy Zhukov

16. Park of Military Glory

17. Alexander Nevskiy Cathedral

18. Stary Oskol Art Museum

19. Holy Cross Church

20. Heart of The City

21. Monument of Aleksandr Nevskiy

22. Alley of Honor

23. Stella City of Military Glory

24. Dnedrologicheskiy Park Ilyiny

25. Locomotive SU 211-75

26. sunny park of culture and leisure.

27. Monument to the Soldier

28. fighting and labor valor museum, 29. blik art gallery.

30. Monument to Vatutin

• Starooskolsky Zoo
• Park of Military Glory
• Stary Oskol Theater for Children and Youth
• Temple of St. Sergius of Radonezh
• Stary Oskol Local Lore Museum
• Dnedrologicheskiy Park Ilyiny
• Sunny Park of Culture and Leisure
• Victory Park