san juan 23 sailboat review

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San Juan 23

• Thread starter Alexvw1970
• Start date Aug 29, 2016
• Tags drain san juan sj23
• Brand-Specific Forums
• San Juan Sailboats

Hello, new to the forum, 1st post. I just bought this SJ23 1979, all is well with the boat, so far. My question is about the 2 cockpit drain holes, one appears to drain fine, the other not, if i put the hose on the one working the water doesn't back up, on the one not working (port side) water doesn't drain as quick (backs up with hose).... Is there an access point to these drains? Could the water be going in the hull? Recommendations? (not Drano) I haven't been able to find any drawings/plans/blueprints on this boat. Thank you in advance. Alex  

No, yes, not Drano. There might be an obstruction, see if you can run a wire to clear it. I would also be wary of the one that drains real fast as that could be the one leaking into the hull. Crawling into a cockpit lazarette might allow inspection of the drain conduits under the cockpit sole.  

Thanks Benny, I'll se what I can find.  

Richard Bryer

If the drains (scuppers) are like my 24 had, they are straight down through the stern lazarette and out just under the water line. You may be able to see the obstruction with a light from the top. A straight iron rod might loosen it.  

Thank you Richard, too bad there isn't an plumbing schematic on these boats  

Sorry, Alexvw- my wording is not quite accurate- the tubes go down through the crawl space under the cockpit, not the lazarette.  

Hi, Any pictures on your boat I'm looking to buy a 1979 San Juan 23 any ideas or advice. I'm Boca Raton Fl. aadamiani@ gmail.com Thank you!  

Good morning Alex D, I can't really give you a professional opinion, with that said, I've use the boat 5 times since purchase (July 2016, it seats at the St Cloud marina , and I sail on Lake Toho. The idea of purchase was to teach my kids about sailing, easy and quick access to it (instead of driving to the coast). So far the boat delivered , rigging is solid, maneuverability is good, I've single piloted this boat with no too much work (and I don't have a rolling furling for forward sail). The previous owner installed an electrical system with two batteries and a air conditioning (dock use only). It has the retractable Keel and Rudder, great for my area. It needs to have some hull Buffing (don't know how) and some other cosmetic stuff. Over roll I'm happy. Let me know how else I can help. Alex.  

Great Thank you, happy sailing!  

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San Juan 23 /w trailer good deal?

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Okay this is my take 2 at a san juan. This one is a 23 on a custom trailer painted (sigh) but actually not that bad, didn't get year he said it was either 73 or 77. Hes askin 3200, everything looks like its in really good shape, none of the issues of the 24 I looked at yesterday, only issue is moisture damage to cushions, there was a couple inches of rain water in the bottom, but no water damage on bulkheads, seems like rains gettin in main hatch but no where else from what I can see. Besides looking like it was sitting on a trailer neglected for the past year it looks really good. No cracking on the gel coat, no soft spots anywhere, original cushions are starting to wear and mold, boat is dirty but that is it. Very small slight cracks in gelcoat on base of outboard mount, but almost not noticeable. forgot to check sails but wasp nest inside distracted me -- dope! looks like it was rewired at somepoint has old depthsounder and other components. I was looking everywhere i have seen issues on other boats, tapped, it looked like once cleaned up, bleached and given a coat of bottom paint she'd be a really beauty. Does not come with outboard. Swing keel cable and line looked allright. Only noticeable issue i saw that might be an issue was the lines used hallyards and whatnot were said to be bought at a climbing store white and slightly frayed, so mabye not marine quality, idk? My questions to you all is 3200 a fair price for this setup with trailer in the PNW (washington)? and 2: Really for my needs im starting to like the trailer sailer with a good phrf for its class quickish, that would be a good weekender or longer (floatin tent) im used to roughin it. any other suggestions besides san juans, im also looking at tanzer 22s. -- sailing puget sound, and the san juans. Thanks in advance. Ill try to get some pics up soon.  

Pics attached hopefully!  

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The Tanzer is probably, overall, a better boat (if condition is otherwise equal).. does it also come with a trailer? is it also swing keel? Trailer sailing can save you some coin but it generally costs you sailing time if you don't get at least a seasonal slip.. raising and lowering the rig can get old in a hurry. A good fixed keel will almost always be a better performer and more stable overall. Hard to say about value.. if a trailer is included and it's in good shape that's worth something on its own. IIRC the SJ 23 is a swing keel version of the original 24 (Bruce Kirby gets partial design credit) but it looks 'more different' than just a re-keel arrangement. At the end of the day, anything is 'worth' what somebody is willing to pay for it. But upping the ante to get a boat that's instantly usable is rarely money poorly spent. EDIT.. having seen the pics, that's a bit of neglect on display there.. I'd bet the seller will be flexible.  

the tanzer 22 is a full keel apparently I have not seen it personally, they want 1500 no sails, or 2000 7 sails, issue stated is the previous owner cut out the stern for outboard but did not reinforce, needs reinforcement, not sure if this is worth my time it is also not local, couple hour drive away to see, but mabye. might be a different thread if one hasn't allready been started.. san juan 23 vs tanzer 22 or better trailer sailer?  

I would say only you can answer the question of if the boat is worth it. If you have to be able to sell it later and get your money back in the future, I would be very hesitant. Where I am (Midwest) there is a very limited market for selling boats. I think my first boat was a great boat,and I put tons of work into it,yet when I sold it I took a beating financially. I'm ok with that though, as to me the money was spent to get to sail and was worth every penny. I'm sure people can and do make money on boats, but I look at how much I love to sail, and what that is worth to me.  

I hear you on the worth it aspect of it, im just a poor person trying to live my dream and don't feel like wasting money that I don't have to waste, 3200 is a lot of money for me, and if that is a fair price for a solid boat I am willing to spend it. This will be my first boat, and besides searching on CL and other boat buying sites I really have no idea if 3200 is a fair price for a dirty boat with good bones with non galvenized trailer and no motor. the guy seemed to think the trailer alone was worth 1700. Im seeing boats in my area between 1500 and 3000 so it seems in the range, but with above condition and aspects im feeling like i could offer less, just want to know if im outta my gourd in offering 2k mabye settle 2500. Im in it to sail it, not a boat flipper here although yes i guess when if i ever can i would love to upgrade to a 28/32 footer blue water boat, so resell value could be important down the line but don't really care now. when i see tanzers with trailers and motors for 2k which seems like a beefier built boat, consistently roomier headroom i guess im second guessing the price of this sj23. Probably should have renamed this post to Seeking trailer sailer any advice?. also a columbia 22 no trailer local just popped up in my radar for 2k... ahh, the search is seemingly endless and componded by my inexperience on this size class of boat (my experience is racing dingy boats, cruising bigger boats, and race crewing on OPBs 22-32ft). Just looking for anyone to shed a little bit more light on my search and help me not make a poor judgement call. This forum already saved me if you have read my first post here on the SJ24. Thanks for all opinions, all are appreciated!  

I can't comment on the price. No one can, really, without examining the boat. That said, I used to own a San Juan 23 just like that one. Very nice boat. Sails well. I found it perfectly comfortable for a couple for 3-4 days. Sailed it all around Florida, and across to the Bahamas once. It is about the biggest boat that I would ever want to try to tow. You need a pretty serious tow vehicle for it, and brakes on the trailer. Rigging and de-rigging are not too difficult, but certainly take a lot more effort than with a smaller daysailer. Quick-release pins, and one of these on the backstay Quick Release Lever Calibrated | APS made the job faster and easier. Good luck, whatever you decide.  

The SJ-23 is NOT related to the SJ-24 design. The 23 was an in-house design and is kind of a scaled down SJ-26. Both are indifferent sailing designs at best. Nothing wrong with the 23 as long as you know your needs and the boat's capabilities. After all these years, condition is as important as pedigree. Best of Luck, whatever you do. If you are still gathering information and could be happy with sling launching rather than ramp launching, also have a look at a Ranger 24. Much nicer cruising interior and it will out sail the SJ all the time. Loren  

I have a San Juan 23 with a trailer, galvanized, an almost new 6hp Nissan extra long shaft 4 stroke, the best looking and extensive DC panel, switches, batteries and charger I have ever seen on a boat under 30ft - almost new mainsail - in Florida and I paid $2900 for it. Not sure the market in your area but without an engine I think yours is priced too high. My rule of thumb on smaller sailboats - add up the equipment - motor . trailer, sails - and that's what it is worth - the hull itself is basically worth $0  

First, let's talk about you. How do you see yourself using a boat (realistically!) and what to you hope to get out of owning one? Answering those questions should lead you to a set of functional criteria for the boat. You probably won't find a boat that meets all the criteria well, so divide your list into absolute-must-haves, and nice-to-haves. Next, set yourself an all-in budget that includes not only things that are attached to the boat, but also things like safety gear (you should take a boating safety course), anchor, dock lines, motor, comfort items (like sailing gloves) and fees (registration, tax, marina or boat ramp, etc). Derive how much you are willing to spend on the boat and initial repairs. Then, look at all the boats in your area that have all your must-haves and are affordable within your budget. Based on your questions, the maker and model of the boat are not nearly as important as the condition. The best bet for you is to find a boat whose seller is willing to take you out sailing for a short while. Boats like a SJ23 that are in good shape get sold quickly, so bring cash and be prepared to buy without having to consult a sailing forum. But you won't know good from bad until you start looking at more boats. There are lots of similar sized and priced boats for sale. Now, for the boat in question: If that boat had a good motor and decent sails, and the owner proved it by taking you out sailing on it, then it might be worth $3K in my market. Based on what you've shown us, we know there is no motor, we assume the sails are rags, and we can see plenty of evidence of neglect. So far, I don't see more than $1000 worth of sailboat, and maybe even less.  

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Review of San Juan 23 Mk II

Basic specs., sailing characteristics.

This section covers widely used rules of thumb to describe the sailing characteristics. Please note that even though the calculations are correct, the interpretation of the results might not be valid for extreme boats.

What is Capsize Screening Formula (CSF)?

The capsize screening value for San Juan 23 Mk II is 2.24, indicating that this boat would not be accepted to participate in ocean races.

What is Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed?

The theoretical maximal speed of a displacement boat of this length is 6.0 knots. The term "Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed" is widely used even though a boat can sail faster. The term shall be interpreted as above the theoretical speed a great additional power is necessary for a small gain in speed.

The immersion rate is defined as the weight required to sink the boat a certain level. The immersion rate for San Juan 23 Mk II is about 101 kg/cm, alternatively 567 lbs/inch. Meaning: if you load 101 kg cargo on the boat then it will sink 1 cm. Alternatively, if you load 567 lbs cargo on the boat it will sink 1 inch.

Sailing statistics

This section is statistical comparison with similar boats of the same category. The basis of the following statistical computations is our unique database with more than 26,000 different boat types and 350,000 data points.

What is Motion Comfort Ratio (MCR)?

What is L/B (Length Beam Ratio)?

What is Displacement Length Ratio?

What is SA/D (Sail Area Displacement ratio)?

Maintenance

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If you need to renew parts of your running rig and is not quite sure of the dimensions, you may find the estimates computed below useful.

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• Sailboat Guide

San Juan 23

San Juan 23 is a 22 ′ 11 ″ / 7 m monohull sailboat designed by Bruce Kirby and built by Clark Boat Company starting in 1975.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

The SAN JUAN 23 derived from the more racing oriented SAN JUAN 24. This same design was also built in Australia for a time as the WINDWARD 7 and in Newzealand as the FLEETWOOD 25.

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tanzer22.org / Reviews / Small Boat Journal (1986)

San juan 23

The san juan 23 is a 23.0ft masthead sloop designed by b.kirby/clark and built in fiberglass by clark boat company since 1975..

The San juan 23 is a light sailboat which is a good performer. It is stable / stiff and has a low righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a day-boat.

San juan 23 for sale elsewhere on the web:

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